Audio from the conclusion of our feature interview with Fat Mike.  Mike does us a favor with a full view into running a record label in the 21st century without marketing spin or self-promoting bullshit.

Clipping continues in full rich DIY punk rock mono.

Fighting the Future with Fat Mike (Part 3)

 

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Today (d)N0t finishes up our week-long feature interview with Fat Mike, 25 year professional punker and head of Fat Wreck Chords.  We conclude with a brutally honest discussion of the economic realities facing NOFX and his label, how Fat Wreck plans to make up the difference, and get Mike’s verdict on the biggest douchebag of 2008.

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Fat Mike: Doing this lowering price thing, we’ve thought about it a lot and we are actually going to make less money, probably.  But the bands are hopefully going to sell more CDs, which is why we started doing this in the first place.

Dream Not Of Today: I guess that’s my real question…

FM:  When we started this, we weren’t doing CDs anyway, we just started with records.  And records, you sell them for $4.25 wholesale, they cost a buck twenty-five to make, there’s three dollars in there somewhere to pay the bands and to pay the label.  And now we’re selling CDs for four bucks, so it’s about the same thing.  It’s just like it was when we started.  It’s not some big deal.  We just have to keep our expenses low, we’re not going to spend fucking marketing dollars at chain stores.  We’re just taking it back to how it was.  To how punk labels used to be in the eighties.

(d)N0t: I guess that’s really the question for me, in 2009 is cost really a gate for the punk audience?  Was the $14 that big of a hurdle?

FM:  Well the people at Fat Wreck Chords that I talk to, I mean they’re real music fans.  They’ve been telling me for years, “I don’t like paying $14 or $15 for CDs.  I look for it used, and I just feel kinda guilty.”    And they go, “If it’s $9 or $10, I’ll buy it.  I’ll pick it up in an instant.”  And I don’t think it’s just these few people, I think that’s more of a universal feeling.  People want to support their bands that they love, but they don’t want to feel ripped off over it.  I think it makes a big difference.  And yeah, you’re still going to sell records, but I think people feel good about supporting their favorite bands.  And if you make it a little easier for them, they can buy their new CD and maybe they’ll buy an old CD from the band too.  Or maybe they’ll buy a T-shirt next time at the show.  Whatever.

(d)N0t: For most of our readers, I think that’s the case.  $10 is a very clear mental block; if a record is $8, you pay more for a drink in San Francisco than you would for a record.  Anecdotally it makes sense, but I guess the question is can Fat Wreck survive on $8 a record.

FM:  Oh.  Well, we’ll see about that.

(d)N0t: [laughs]

FM:  In order for us to make the same amount of profit, we kinda have to double our sales.

(d)N0t: I mean, that’s a lot.

FM:  Yeah, and I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

(d)N0t: So how do you intend to make up that gap?

FM:  Well, a lot of bands aren’t spending $20,000 or $30,000 in the studio anymore.  They’re spending $5,000.  I have a really nice studio in San Francisco and I’m giving it to bands for $8,000 and they can stay there for the month.  And shit like that.  We’re making a lot of other things cheaper.  We’re not doing these buyouts in chain stores where it costs $10,000 to get them to buy 5,000 records.  We’re not spending this kind of marketing.  It’s just how it’s gonna be.

I just think it’s the right move for us.  We’re just going to go for it.  It’s not like the label can close any time soon, because I got fucking NOFX that still sells hundreds of thousands of records and the Gimme Gimmes still sell that many.  The last Strung Out record still did 60,000.

(d)N0t: The last Strung Out record was really good.

FM:  Oh, thanks.  I’ll them know when I’m done with this call.  We still have a lot of bands, especially older bands, that still sell a lot of records.  So there’s less profit and yeah, the new bands are only selling 10,000-20,000 copies but that’s okay too.  Because you know, shit, I remember 1988-89 when S&M Airlines came out, it sold 2500 copies.  And this band Verbal Assault had sold 10,000 and we were like, “Holy shit!  10,000 records?”

(d)N0t: “Oh my god!”

FM:  “That’s unbelievable!  If we could only sell 10,000 records…”  And once me and Fletcher from Pennywise, their first record and Ribbed each sold around 12,000 or 15,000 and we’re like, “What the fuck? Where’s our royalties?  How come we’re getting ripped off from Epitaph?”  And it was just ridiculous, because we weren’t even selling shit.  But, you know it was fun. It’s all relative.

Now you look back at it and one of my bands sells 10,000 records and they’re bummed.  It’s like, “Dude you just sold ten thousand fucking records.  That’s a lot of records!”  What’s more important is if 10,000 people like your record.  Because then eventually a lot more people are going to hear it and like it and your band is going to become popular.

(d)N0t: That’s something you can build a career off of.

FM:  Sure.  Just depends how good your record is.

Read the rest of the interview…

Audio for part two of our interview with Fat Mike is available below. The Gonzo Podcast is almost set to go – shooting for our debut next week.

Apologies again for the clipping.

Part 2 of the (d)N0t interview with Fat Mike

 

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(d)N0t continues its three part feature interview with NOFX frontman and indie label head Fat Mike.  In this installment, Mike weighs in on the death of the record, the Radiohead effect and runs down a list of common household commodities he just made more expensive than punk rock records.

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Dream Not Of Today: When you use the word “coaster” to describe the product of the music industry… you know in “A Million Coasters” you talk about the Fat warehouse being full of phone booths and walkmen and betamaxes, do you mean that music is being valued less or just describing this format change from physical discs to digital distribution.

Fat Mike: I think it’s a little bit of both.  The CD is definitely going out like the cassette.  Whether or not we keep pressing them, I don’t know.  Because, you know, vinyl never left.   Everyone thought vinyl was going to disappear, it didn’t.  So the CD may hang around.

But the problem is kids nowadays – and I do mean kids, because their attention spans are different – will download a single or two from a band and that’s what they’ll put on their iPod.  They’re not really interested in a whole album because they don’t fucking have forty minutes in their day to listen to a whole album.  That’s the saddest part.  I mean, all NOFX records are generally under or around thirty minutes, but you want the album vibe.  That’s what music… I don’t know.  Your best memories are listening to a whole album.  Listening to Ziggy Stardust or Misfits Walk Among Us.  It’s not just listening to one song, you don’t get the same feeling.  Even old classical music, the pieces were long.  You’re supposed to fucking sit down and enjoy something.

(d)N0t: Do you think the album is dying?

FM: I don’t think it’s dying. But, it’s definitely not going to be what most people are listening to.  But, you know, it’s like different sections of music in record stores.  Classical music isn’t that popular and standards aren’t that popular or musicals, but they’re not dead.

(d)N0t: The thing that’s interesting about those records though is if you go to the classical section of a record store or the jazz section of a record store, those CDs are $15 or $20 or $25 because they are appealing to such a niche audience.  How do you think this price drop is going to play for punk rockers?

FM: So far the response has been really positive.  A lot of people are like, “I totally respect that.  Fat Wreck Records are lowering their price to make a fair price, and I don’t feel bad about paying $8 or $10 for a record.”  That’s what they should be.  I mean, seriously the profit margin on CDs was ridiculous from the beginning.  They were always cheaper than LPs to make, but they were double the price in stores.

And I think it was a good thing for the music industry, because what it did.  It allowed labels to sign bands and take chances on Faith No More or Nirvana or Green Day, and because they had more profit margin they could sign some really cool alternative bands.  It did change the music industry in a really positive way, but I don’t think it’s really necessary anymore.  Since downloading is so easy and cheap, prices have to come down to make it fair.

Especially with iTunes, everything on iTunes is $9.98.  And our iTunes sales have been doing great, but the record should not be more in stores.  You saw Coaster, we spent a lot of time on the packaging.  It’s a nice looking package – I mean, you see me with a Close Encounters shirt on.  That’s pretty fucking cool.  Riding a Z-Flex skateboard.

(d)N0t: It’s something you’d want to put over your bidet, for example.

FM: [laughs] It’s suitable for framing, for sure.  If we put the effort into packaging and making a good product and a good entire record, I think people are going to want the whole record.  But that’s been the problem with the record industry for years, bands will put two good songs on the record and the rest is garbage.  That’s why people are so fucking pissed at the record industry.

(d)N0t: Do you think that’s why people are buying less music?

FM: Well, it’s got something to do with it.  But that’s been the argument for years.  People are just sick of spending sixteen bucks on a record and then finding out there are two good songs on it.

(d)N0t: You think this price fatigue is the reason why consumer sales have gone down so much.

FM: Well, I think it’s one of the reasons.  I mean, in the 70’s and 80’s when there weren’t very many bands being signed and you look at all those old rock bands, their records were basically good all the way through.  You didn’t buy a Zeppelin record and go, “Oh, there’s only one good song on here.”  The bands cared about how good the entire record was.  And if there was downloading then, you’re not going to buy “Black Dog” and then not get the rest of the album.

(d)N0t: Right.

FM: You’re gonna get the whole fucking record.  Because producers and bands cared about the whole record.  It still happens, a lot of bands still do care, but a lot of bands don’t either.  Like a lot of labels, “Okay,  just get the hit song on there.  Okay, we’re waiting for the hit.  Once you get a hit, we’ll release your album.”  How many times have you heard that from a major before?  “We’re waiting for that one hit song.  That’ll sell the record.”  Fuck you.

Make a good fucking record.  I tell bands, when they send me a three song demo, “Will you sign us?”  No, I won’t sign you – send me fifteen songs, I’ll think about signing you.

Read the rest of the interview…

By popular request, here is the audio of the first part of our three part feature interview with NOFX frontman and indie label head Fat Mike. For all the iTunes users, we’re in the process of setting up a (d)N0t podcast but still not ready for prime time just yet.  The recording of this interview will kick off the Gonzo Podcast, and will be followed by readings and other kinds of bedlam on a weekly basis.

Apologies ahead for the clipping – either the transAtlantic cable boosts gain 20 decibels or Mike maintains an unhealthy closeness with his telephones.

On The Shitter With Fat Mike (Part 1)

 

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